Modern valves?

Go down

Modern valves?

Post  verdatum on Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:05 pm

I'm making a set of uilleann pipes as my first foray into pipemaking. I'm curious about the check valves. As I understand it, the traditional mechanism for bagpipe check valves is a flap of leather. I also see that there are specialty prefabricated valves on the market; specifically [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. I've also seen instructions for building your own silicone flapper valve [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. While writing this post, I also came across a lovely summary of the different kinds of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

I'm hesitant to go with the traditional leather valve. It just seems like yet another thing I'd have to fuss with, and I'm sure I'll be plenty busy fussing with my reed Wink The specialty bagpipe valves look lovely, but they're unsuitable for the bellows intake valve. Plus, since I'm building the pipe from scratch, it sort of feels like cheating.

I was surprised that I haven't been able to easily find any generic low pressure pneumatic check valves. I've found a couple valves in the hardware store plumbing department, but they are either too large or too heavy to be feasible for use in bagpipes. Some depend on gravity and a specific orientation, some require too much force to either open or close, and some whistle when the nearly-closed valve creates an impromptu fipple.

I have found some interesting devices online, but most of them are specialty components marketed to the manufacturing industry. I found a nice brass pneumatic valve that was 1/4'' NPT, and about the size of a coupler. I found a site or two that offered to custom fabricate a valve using any fitting, material, and pressure properties I liked, so long as I order a few hundred. I found some aquarium components that, while small, looked promising. However I wanted to have one in my hands to play with before purchasing.

In my experience, the nicest valve I've seen is the exhaust valve in my cartridge respirator (filter mask). It uses a thin cup-shaped flap of silicone, supported by some injection molded plastic over a silicone gasket. I'd love to use something like this for my bellows and blowpipe valves. I could take a respirator apart for the valve, but that seems like a waste of a good respirator. 3M lists an item number for a replacement exhaust valve on their website, but I'm not seeing any friendly places to order one online or at a brick & mortar establishment.

I know there are dust masks with exhaust valves as well. I haven't played with these before. Since the dust masks are disposable, I fear they might be a good deal more flimsy than the valve described above. If not, they might be a feasible component in my construction. I think I might pick one up this evening and play around with it.

Since I have molding/casting experience, particularly in silicone, I've also considered making a copy of my respirator exhaust valve. Since this implies This seems a bit labor intensive, so I'd probably play around with the proscribed leather valve first. If the leather valve bugs me too much, I might give it a shot.

Can anyone share their experiences regarding valve innovation? Are there any good prefab bellows valves? Any good everyday items that can be re-purposed for either valve?

verdatum

Posts : 29
Join date : 2010-11-30
Location : Maryland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Modern valves?

Post  Bob Salter on Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:53 pm

I have always used leather. I have posted a video from youtube which shows an excellent way of doing it. You could easily use a silicon valve using that guys method.
However I would be VERY interested to see anything you come up with. How about a pic of the 3m valve so we can see what you are talking about. Please be sure to update this thread with anything you try as it is always interesting to seee how other people are doing it.

Bob
avatar
Bob Salter

Posts : 101
Join date : 2010-11-24
Age : 58
Location : Perth, Scotland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Modern valves?

Post  texasbagpiper on Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:04 am

I have used little mac valves in my Uilleann pipes and they work fine, but leather flaps are cheaper. Here is a bellow stock with the same idea. Its for a Swedish bagpipe but its the same setup. Seth

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
texasbagpiper

Posts : 87
Join date : 2010-11-24
Location : Texas

View user profile http://SwedishBagpipes.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Modern valves?

Post  verdatum on Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:26 am

I took apart a 3M dust mask. It's basically a clapper valve with a couple innovations. It should be easy to mount in my bellows, so I'm going to do a test with it. I don't think this particular valve is feasible for use on the bag side with my current design.

The dust mask valve is detailed in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

I should have pics this evening.

verdatum

Posts : 29
Join date : 2010-11-30
Location : Maryland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Modern valves?

Post  texasbagpiper on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:05 am

verdatum wrote:I took apart a 3M dust mask. It's basically a clapper valve with a couple innovations. It should be easy to mount in my bellows, so I'm going to do a test with it. I don't think this particular valve is feasible for use on the bag side with my current design.

The dust mask valve is detailed in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

I should have pics this evening.

For bellows drill a 1" hole in the bellow paddle, turn a wooden plug with a 1/2" bore, and add a leather clapper valve.
avatar
texasbagpiper

Posts : 87
Join date : 2010-11-24
Location : Texas

View user profile http://SwedishBagpipes.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Modern valves?

Post  verdatum on Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:45 am

texasbagpiper wrote:
For bellows drill a 1" hole in the bellow paddle, turn a wooden plug with a 1/2" bore, and add a leather clapper valve.

I understand the traditional method, but I'm trying to see if I can improve on traditional design; impetuous as it may be Smile

The spiffy part about the dust mask valve is the curve in the tubing. It's modeled by computer simulating the flex in a thin rubber sheet while putting uniform pressure upon it. The result is minimal resistance to airflow, practically nonexistent orientation concerns, and quieter operation. The downside is that the curve in the pipe is fairly complicated, it isn't just as simple as holding a pipe against a grinding wheel, so you can't easily replicate the feature for alternative diameter airways. But just using the dust mask valve directly is easy (and no fear or patent infringement that way); especially easy given that 1 mask costs about $3.

The aforementioned respirator filter appears to be the one described in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

I did manage to find a seller for a replacement valve from 3M of a similar style: "3M Exhalation Valve 6889" at boatersworld.com. $4 + shipping.

There's also a larger clacker valve sold by 3M: "3M Exhalation Valve 7583". I see similar prices for that. I'm not sure what the mount for this one looks like.

verdatum

Posts : 29
Join date : 2010-11-30
Location : Maryland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Modern valves?

Post  verdatum on Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:33 am

I assembled a bag and bellows using 2 dustmask valves and a couple PVC plumbing fittings. It probably took more time selecting the proper fittings than it did to assemble the thing.

Especially given the fact that this is my first time making a bag or bellows, I'm amazed at how well it works. The valves are nearly silent and completely leak-free.

After successfully building the bellows with the dustmask valve, I tried making a leather clapper for the blowpipe valve. But since there wasn't enough spring-force drawing the valve back, it hammered quite loudly. I'm sure I could have fixed it by reinforcing the leather with a polystyrene sheet, but I felt like I could replace it with a second dustmask valve faster.

The only downsides in my current design are that I wasn't very careful to make the valves easily serviceable, and the PVC fitting on the blowpipe valve is a bit bulky. Both of these issues could be addressed without too much difficulty.

I've been too busy building the thing to upload my photos, but I'll try to get them and a demo video up soon.


verdatum

Posts : 29
Join date : 2010-11-30
Location : Maryland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Modern valves?

Post  texasbagpiper on Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:15 pm

verdatum wrote:I assembled a bag and bellows using 2 dustmask valves and a couple PVC plumbing fittings. It probably took more time selecting the proper fittings than it did to assemble the thing.

Especially given the fact that this is my first time making a bag or bellows, I'm amazed at how well it works. The valves are nearly silent and completely leak-free.

After successfully building the bellows with the dustmask valve, I tried making a leather clapper for the blowpipe valve. But since there wasn't enough spring-force drawing the valve back, it hammered quite loudly. I'm sure I could have fixed it by reinforcing the leather with a polystyrene sheet, but I felt like I could replace it with a second dustmask valve faster.

The only downsides in my current design are that I wasn't very careful to make the valves easily serviceable, and the PVC fitting on the blowpipe valve is a bit bulky. Both of these issues could be addressed without too much difficulty.


I've been too busy building the thing to upload my photos, but I'll try to get them and a demo video up soon.


We need pictures!!!!!!!!
avatar
texasbagpiper

Posts : 87
Join date : 2010-11-24
Location : Texas

View user profile http://SwedishBagpipes.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Modern valves?

Post  verdatum on Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:58 pm

So, hopefully, I'm doing this right.

Here is the bellows With the sleeve cap in place:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Here is the bellows with the cap removed, showing the valve in place.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I'm expanding the bellows in the photo so you can see the valve flap in operation.

Pics of the bag valve are on my other camera. I'll upload those whenever I get around to finding the right cable.

verdatum

Posts : 29
Join date : 2010-11-30
Location : Maryland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Modern valves?

Post  texasbagpiper on Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:47 pm

That's pretty cool. Can you remove/replace the valve or parts when they ware out. Seth
avatar
texasbagpiper

Posts : 87
Join date : 2010-11-24
Location : Texas

View user profile http://SwedishBagpipes.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Modern valves?

Post  verdatum on Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:12 am

With this design, no, not easily. I plan to either make a new bellows, or just drill out the PVC housing whenever this one needs servicing. If I were to do it again, I could make it more serviceable by instead gluing the valve onto a removable part....possibly even the sleeve cap itself.

Of course, since it is a synthetic rubber, and it's holding up quite well so far, there's a chance it could just last a lifetime.

verdatum

Posts : 29
Join date : 2010-11-30
Location : Maryland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Modern valves?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum